We interviewed Katey Zeh (23), a young feminist about a broad range of issues, from the need for intergenerational conversation among feminists to the nexus of faith and feminism.  Here are her answers. Please feel to email any responses/reactions you’d like to share to womensministries@episcopalchurch.org. Let the dialogue begin!

Q:  Can you describe your understanding of how feminism has changed over time?

A:  First wave feminism focused primarily on women’s legal rights, including suffrage, while second wave feminism focused on how gender inequality affected all aspects of women’s lives. The critique of these approaches is that they saw sexism as the root of all injustice, naming themselves as victims and all men as the beneficiaries of a patriarchal system. Many of these first and early second-wave feminists were upper class, white women who desired their share of the elite power held by their male counterparts. In doing so, they neglected the ways that they benefited with regard to their social class and race. Towards the end of the second wave the movement began to include more diverse voices, those who critiqued these early feminists and began to reframe the conversation to include other “isms”—classism, heterosexism, racism, Eurocentricity, etc—that contributed to a larger system of domination.

Now, third-wave feminists are influenced by post-colonial awareness. We realize that calling someone else oppressed is simply another form of domination, stripping away someone’s agency to speak on her own behalf. Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak names this tendency in her article “Can the Subaltern Speak?” in the terms of “white women saving brown women from brown men.” We have become increasingly self-critical of the ways that we ourselves participate in hierarchical dualisms, oftentimes stereotyping “the other”—liberals demonizing conservatives, for example. Women, too, must realize that they have internalized sexism. By admitting our participation in the system, we can begin to change it.

In the church, as in society as a whole, women continue to occupy traditionally male roles (like ordained priesthood), and my sense is that oftentimes they feel that they need to obtain their authority like men have done. My hope is that these feminist sensibilities will help women and men, lay people and ordained clergy, in the church to redefine what it means to have authority.

Q:  How do you understand the relationship between generations of feminists?

A:  Though many younger women like me were born into a world where feminism was the “f-word,” we have begun to reclaim it and to associate ourselves with feminism proudly! I have found that many younger women greatly admire the “giants” of earlier waves of feminism, though we’re often intimidated by their power. I think it’s important to note, too, that many of these women (Letty Russell, Margaret Farley, Rosemary Radford Ruether, Mary Daly) are entering retirement age, so they can seem distant from younger women.

Older feminists may feel frustrated with how change happens at an incredibly slow pace, and they may be disappointed that the things they have fought for haven’t materialized or taken root everywhere. For instance, I had a conversation with a Presbyterian minister who was dismayed that gender-inclusive language was unheard of in my local congregation in Georgia. I believe there is also frustration directed at younger feminists, who seem to have a short collective memory. While young women are the beneficiaries of the work these older women accomplished, they are not always aware of the struggle these women endured.
And, as with any reactionary movement, feminism comes in waves and will continue to move in this way. I say with confidence that young women will continue to carry the torch of feminism.

Q:  How can we cultivate cooperation between generations of feminists?

A:  This must be initiated by both sides. Both younger women and older women must see that they have much to learn from intergenerational dialogue. It’s not about “mentoring” in the sense of one group being older and wiser, bestowing information and wisdom to the younger, inexperienced group. It’s about sharing experiences, sitting in a circle, hearing about things from a different, distant perspective.  I think there are many barriers—social and personal—that stand in the way of these interactions. One venue that I have found affective in facilitating intergenerational conversation is in small groups. We have to be intentional about bringing older and younger women together in these situations.

Q:  What is the place of men in feminist work?

A:  While I firmly believe that women should be the predominant force in feminist work, men, too, have a place in the feminist movement. We must negate the earlier belief that all men were beneficiaries of the patriarchal system and recognize that men have been hurt by this system as well. Men need to recognize the ways in which they benefit from the system. Once they admit their participation in the oppression, they are empowered to help stop its continuance. Some earlier feminists advocated for “women’s only” space, which I agree has a place, but it doesn’t go to the root of the problem: domination. It is important to recognize that women have internalized sexism and patriarchy, too.  As with men, if women don’t take responsibility for participating in their own marginalization, they cannot work to change it.

Q:  What do you see as the potential of feminism empowered by faith?

The intersections of feminism and religion are complex. For example, I find both sources of oppression and empowerment within my Christian tradition. One important book for me has been Mary Farrell Bednarowski’s The Religious Imagination of American Women in which she describes these complex relationships women have to their faiths as “creative ambivalence.” Through creative ambivalence, women have been and will continue to be engaged in their faith communities while standing in disagreement with some of its beliefs or practices that are oppressive. I think that we must be careful, though, not to define religion as a source of empowerment for all women.